Friday, November 30, 2007

El Espejo de España

Cito a Joan Prats sobre la Guerra Civil Española

“En 1938, en plena guerra civil española, Georges Orwell escribió una pieza maestra del anarquismo romántico, Homenaje a Catalunya. Pasado el tiempo su relato se ve tan emotivo y sentido como profundamente errado. Los aparentemente buenos no lo eran tanto, sus utopías resultaron quimeras, los malos eran mucho peores de lo imaginado, y los que mantenían posiciones sensatas fueron desoídos por unos y otros. Resultado, una guerra civil desgraciada en la que se fusiló más de lo que se mató en el frente, 40 años de franquismo, mucho sufrimiento, dolor, atraso y tristeza, y desenganche de España del proceso europeo al que no se pudo volver sino en 1986, medio siglo más tarde del inicio de la guerra civil”

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

Jus ad bellum

Just cause
The reason for going to war needs to be just and can therefore be recapturing things taken or punishing people who have done wrong.

Comparative justice
While there may be rights and wrongs on all sides of a conflict, to override the presumption against the use of force, the injustice suffered by one party must significantly outweigh that suffered by the other. Theorists such as Brian Orend omit this term, seeing it as fertile ground for exploitation by bellicose regimes.

Legitimate authority
Only duly constituted public authorities may use deadly force or wage war

Right intention
Force may be used only in a truly just cause and solely for that purpose—correcting a suffered wrong is considered a right intention, while material gain or maintaining economies is not.

Probability of success
Arms may not be used in a futile cause or in a case where disproportionate measures are required to achieve success;

Last resort
Force may be used only after all peaceful and viable alternatives have been seriously tried and exhausted.

Anonymous said...

Una buena idea pacifista es ver los espejos de España, El Salvador, ver los muertos en cifras, el número de huerfanos, el número de invalidos, el número de heridos, el costo de una guerra, con la AC retrocedemos unos 10 años sin concenso, con concenso avansamos unos 5 años, con una guerra retrocedemos unos cuarenta años, sería bueno mostrarles el espejo a los intelectuales del gobierno, a los guerreros, y a los que no entienden
razones.
El empate catastrofico que nos hablaba el vice Garcia Linera se ha vuelto realidad , no se puede imponer ni tener un proyecto hegemonico, ni menos autoritario, tenía razon, la solución es el CONCENSO, no el desempeta a la fuerza, en futbol se gana con goles, no se gana golpeando al rival o al arbitro o que las hinchadas invadan la cancha, no se puede dejar toda la cancha a la hinchada, en ajedrez se gana con un
jaque mate, no se gana volteando el tablero, en una guerra lamentablemente mayormente se gana de manera muy violente con consecuencias catastroficas, economicamente una pérdida total, nuestra fragil economía no resistiria, como siempre los pobres , los mas pobres, los mas ignorantes serían las víctimas de los malos liderazgos, de los ideologolos que los mandan como peones de su ajedrez politico, irian como ovejas al matadero.
Los llamados a la paz , a la cordura de la iglesia y de muchas personas no están demas aunque parezcan inocentes, ilusas e incluso tal vez un poco ingenuas.

Espalda mojada said...

Amigos co-bloggers:
Aparte de felicitar al dueño del blog por su soberbia habilidad para el cut & paste quisiera permitirme hacer una exhortación. Demos nuestro apoyo ilimitado a "Anonymous", démosle nuestro apoyo para que candidatee al Nobel de la paz, hagamos una vaquita para que vaya a tomar té con nuestro bailarín estalista, perdón, con el vicepresidente García, aceptemos la mediación de Tarzán, hagamos cualquier cosa pero... que alguien le diga a ese imbécil iletrado que lo que busca con sus rebuznos mal redactados es consenso, no concenso.

Espalda mojada said...

NB: La referencia a don Alvaro García salió equivocada por un "dedazo" involuntario que los amigos co-bloggers comprenderán... La frase correcta es "el bailarín estalinista".

Anonymous said...

Disculpas por los errores ortagráficos, gracias por el tesito,sobre el Premio Nobel de la Paz no creo que sea para tanto, creo que hay personas que tienen más méritos, sólo trato de contribuir con mi granito de arena.

Anonymous said...

espalda mojada aburres

Ernesto said...

No creo que lleguemos a una guerra civil...al menos no a una en su definición "clásica".

Eso por supuesto no significa que no debamos preocuparnos por lo que parece esperarnos en los próximos meses: violencia, bloqueos, crisis de las instituciones del Estado, radicalización política,etc.

Me animo a sugerir a Gonzalo continuar con el tipo de debate que se tuvo en este blog acerca del IDH.

Y aunque pequemos de ingenuos, es mejor trabajar colectivamente en torno a temas precisos, relacionados con la economía o la gestión pública, que dar espacio a ciertos ejercicios de ironía sin mucho resultado...

Vale la pena continuar Gonzalo, así los avances parezcan mínimos.

Ernesto

Anonymous said...

si en vez de usar la palabra comunitaria, se reemplaza por corporativa. Pareceria que la CPE del MAS es extremadamente capitalista. Pregunto, cual es la diferencia entre un organismo communitario y una sociedad anomina compuesta de accionistas?

Insisto que estas cosas deberian estar en un codigo de comercio y no en una constitucion.

Que tal si en el espiritu autonimico debatimos que funciones economicas puede atribuirse un gobierno central nacional vs uno regional/departamental?

Anonymous said...

Puro derecho, sarcasmo y nada de economía. Con razón el país esta asi porque los economistas habian preferido ser políticos. Si son Homus Economicus ser politiquero debe dar más verdes al bolsillo o no ?

Gonzalo Chavez said...

La coyuntura se pinta dificil. Tengo la impresi{on que se juegan en dos tableros de ajedrez. En el primero esta una institucionalidad perforada, pero que el gobierno insiste en jugar, es el caso de la aprobación de de la Constitución y la aprobaci{on del cambio ne el IDH. En este tablero, el gobierno tiene algunas ventajas y continua avanzado. LAs regiones, que es la real oposición, en este tablero est´na contra la pared y sólo pueden reclamar y denuvcair. El otro tablero de ajedrez, es el que quiere hacer avanzar las regiones. Sus principales jugadas: la resistencia, y la elaboración de cartas autonómicas. ES salir del juego del gobierno. Un escenario complejo. Veamos cuales son las proximas jugadas. Alguien se atrve a dar alguna idea?

Anonymous said...

Un mundo donde la economia no dependa de la politica es el suen~o de los libertarians. El socialismo es lo opuesto, ahi el gobierno politiza la economia.

Les estas pidiendo a un grupo de lecheros que no solo vean a la vaca y se hagan el ojo gordo del pasto en que esta se alimenta

Anonymous said...

Cuidado con las movidas de ajedrez, sea el tablero que fuere. No nos vaya a pasar como a Kasparov que lo meten preso por protestar en contra del régimen de gobierno.

Anonymous said...

Por protestar no creo que lo metan preso anónimo anterior. Otros sinverguenzas como el aceitero Marinkovic ya deberían estar en la cárcel por "complotar" y llamar a desobediencia civil y ya ve que no pasa nada. Así que no le busque 3 pies al gato. Todos sabemos que este país ya paso el nivel de la "protesta" no sea sinverguenza usted también!!!

Anonymous said...

Típica crítica oficialista la del anónimo anterior: Puro ataque, nada de contenido y una opinión desafortunadamente desinformada.

Reciba usted mis saludos cordiales.

Anonymous said...

Típica crítica de la OPOSICIÓN la del anónimo anterior: Puro ataque, nada de contenido y una opinión desafortunadamente desinformada.

Reciba usted mis saludos cordiales.

Anonymous said...

Mi distinguido Señor,

comprenderá Usted que no es de mi agrado jugar al mono mayor. Por ende, dor por terminada mi participación.

Reciba usted mis saludos más cordiales.

Anonymous said...

Mi distinguido Mono Mayor,

comprenderá Usted que no es de mi agrado ser el mono menor. Por ende, doy por terminada mi participación.

Reciba usted mis saludos más cordiales.

Anonymous said...

Pucha, al menos ese señor comprendió que a nadie le debe gustar sel un MONO MENOR...A ver si aprenden otros!!

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